Re: DOS box creepers and Tame

["Martin J. Osborne" osborne@xxxxxxxx]

Many, many thanks, Robert!! You're right, I don't know my operating system ...

Robert Holmgren wrote:

> ** Reply to message from "Martin J. Osborne"  on
> Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:23:59 -0400
>
> > 1. A stray flashing underscore, which looks like a cursor, appears in the
>
> Probably your mouse, mapped on key 105, and pretty useless. Does "cursor"
> disappear if you move mouse? Want to just remove the mouse from Xy4DOS?

  No, the "cursor" doesn't disappear when I move the mouse. In fact now I can't
seem to reproduce the problem---now when I start Xy4DOS I don't always get the
extraneous pseudo-cursor, and haven't managed to determine the conditions that
produce it.


> > 2. In the taskbar at the bottom of the screen, and in the display that comes
> > up upon pressing Alt-Tab, the same icon is used for all DOS programs, rather
> > than a small version of the screen icon for each program, as under W95 and
> > W98, making it more difficult to pick out the program to switch to.
>
> True. But its also much more concise, and it packs all sorts of new
> functionality in -- just compare the power of the two Toolbars! There's no
> comparison. RMB in various blank areas, and try the options...

  OK----I see that there are some options (though I just clicked on one of them
and the result was that Explorer (Windows explorer) crashed and my desktop went
entirely blank... is this a new feature? (just kidding...)). I will explore the
new options.
  Regarding the list you get when you Alt-Tab (my normal method of switching
between programs): I use several DOS programs other than XyWrite, so it would be
nice to have different icons there. I'm wondering is there is a workaround: could
one write a small Windows program to lauch XyWrite, and give the program its own
icon???


> > 3. Suppose you shell out to DOS and run a program. After the program has
> > started, control is not passed back to the DOS window, so that you can't

> dos/nv/x/z /c cmd.exe /c start [lotsa handy /switches unavailable under

> pathetic W9x command processor] programname args

  That works (it runs the program under cmd.exe rather than command.com, I
gather), but doesn't produce any different behavior ... I respond to your following
comment below.

> But looking closely at what you're saying, even under pure DOS, if you
> "shelled" (to me that means DOS/NV) and launched a second program, how would
> you possibly "return to XyWrite before you quit the program"? No can do -- its
> the same process. And how could control be "passed back to the DOS window" in
> 9x if the secondary process is still running? Anyway, whatever, the above
> command is going to launch the second process without ever seeming to leave
> XyWrite... both XyWrite and the second process will be simultaneously
> available, with random access to either one, which I guess(?) is what you
> want... I also can't understand why you would want to run Ghostscript and
> XyWrite in the same memory space... maybe I don't understand what you're
> saying...
>
> When you say "go back and forth", what do you mean -- click on taskbar?
> XyShell makes this kind of thing very easy from fullscreen/dosbox session,
> using the SWitch command...

  What I mean is this: My XyWrite program says
... BC dos/nv /c cp filename arguments XC BC ca filename ...
  where cp is a batch file with a line that says
call makedvi arguments
  where makedvi is another batch file, and then puts up a menu (in the DOS window
in which XyWrite is displayed) with an option to go to the line
call view arguments
  where view is another batch file that contains, inter alia,
\Progra~1\Ghostgum\gsview\gsview32.exe %1.ps
  following the "call view ..." line in cp.bat is a line that again puts up a
menu, with an option to go to a line that says "exit".
  So what I do is this: I'm working on a TeX file in XyWrite. When done, I press
alt-K, which invokes the XyWrite program that goes to DOS, runs makedvi, and gives
the option to run view, which invokes Ghostview, which displays the compiled file.
At this point I have a Ghostview screen displayed. If, under W95 or W98, I press
alt-Tab I can return to the DOS window, where the menu, with an option to exit, is
displayed. I press x, and XyWrite returns to the window, with my file displayed
(at the point I was working on---that's part of the XyWrite program). Moderately
nifty...
  Now, everything is the same under W2K up to the point that Ghostview displays
my file. Then, if I press alt-Tab to go to the DOS window, my menu is not
there---the batch file is stuck at the point it reached when it loaded Ghostview.
If I close Ghostview then control in the DOS window is passed back to the batch
file, and my menu appears. All this makes sense to me, though for my purposes the
behavior under W95 and W98 is better: after getting into Ghostview I can go back to
the DOS window, and return to XyWrite, where I can fix all the problems I see in
the file that Ghostview displays.
  I have designed a workaround, which increases the number of keystrokes (and can
no doubt be improved): Before exiting to DOS, my XyWrite program creates a batch
file called viewfile.bat (replacing any old one that exists) with the line
\Progra~1\Ghostgum\gsview\gsview32.exe filename
in it, and I have put a shortcut to this file on my desktop. So now I don't have
my main batch file call Ghostview, but rather simply create the Postscript file.
Then I return to XyWrite and click on the viewfile.bat desktop icon to load
Ghostview with my file in it. I achieve the same effect as in my setup under W95
and W98 (i.e. starting from a file being edited in XyWrite, I go to a preview of
that file in Ghostview in one window, and the XyWrite in another window) with one
extra keystoke (actually, one extra mouse click).

> > 4. The DOS window no longer has a "toolbar" on it, so that cutting and
>
> Forget the Toolbar ["System Menu"]. To Copy, just select the text with LMB,
> then hit Enter (or double-click to select a whole word); RMB Pastes. Works
> perfectly in XyWrite DOSbox.

  Yes---I see that that's useful (easier than using the System Menu, I have to
admit). But it's still nice to use the mouse for making big moves of the cursor in
XyWrite. I wondered whether a way to allow mouse use in XyWrite might be to assign

NI,MS
to Shift-105, but I see that that doesn't work---it looks as if the mouse is
completely taken over by Windows.

> Prefer the keyboard? Alt-Spacebar+E+P to Paste, for example... No mousing
> around.

  Well yes ... though not for me (because I use alt-space within XyWrite,
blocking it out from Windows in the Properties setting). (Of course, I could
reverse that.)


> There are other ways to skin this cat too -- Martin, with respect, you
> just aren't familiar with this OpSys yet! You can't expect that everything
> will be "the same". Nor that solutions will all be intuitive. There's some
> learning to do, that's all.

  You're 100% right there! DOS used to come with nice manuals that I could
browse through and learn a lot ... I miss that with Windows.


> > 5. Shortcut keys apparently don't work for DOS programs. That is, even if
> > one assigns a shortcut key in the Program tab of the Properties of the
> > desktop item, it has no effect.
>
> I know what you're doing: you're using COMMAND.COM! Can't shake those old
> habits.

  I'm trying....

> Do this: RMB in a blank area of the Desktop==>New==>Shortcut==>
> %windir%\system32\cmd.exe /c start d:\path\editor.exe /e4000
> Set your "Shortcut key", e.g. Ctrl-Alt-X. It *will* work.

  Wow!---that's quite something! I've never seen a XyWrite screen with that many
lines of depth before---looks great (and useful)! Two problems:
  - XyWrite comes up in full screen mode, which is not good for me because I have
my (flat) screen in "portrait" mode, but this mode doesn't rotate a full screen
(obviously, it can't). Can I get it to start in a window? (I get the wonderful
long screen when I go to a window---why is the screen long?)
  - I want to load my own startup file---my standard batch file says
\xy4\editor, \xy4\startup.mjo
---but when I run startup.mjo after executing your suggested shortcut, I go back to
a short screen.


> > By far the most annoying "feature" is the slow and jerky response to
> > keystrokes, which perhaps Tame will eventually fix.
>
> I think the solution to this is quite close.

  Terrific!

> Before you go back to W9x, you might consider a third option, which is XP
> (horrors).

  Apparently XP is not compatible with our network here (e.g. I wouldn't be able
to use our nice color laser printer, which I love...)---that's one of the reasons I
took W2K. But presumably our IP person will eventually resolve the problems with
XP, once enough people have it.

--
Martin J. Osborne
Department of Economics
150 St. George Street
University of Toronto
Toronto
M5S 3G7
Canada
http://www.economics.utoronto.ca

martin.osborne@xxxxxxxx
http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/osborne
+1 416-978-5094