Re: Unix and Xywrite and whatnot

[urqurw@xxxxxxxx (Russ W. Urquhart)]

Due to a hectic project i haven't been able to participate in this discussion. BUT, because of XY4,
and a little
utility that lets me work on Interleaf doc strictly as text files, i was able to do in couple of
hours, what
would have take me and others days to do! Thank you VERY very much to the creators of XY!!!!!!!

now, back to the post.



> RH asks:
>
> > Very interesting post, Harmon. Tell me a bit more. Can you run Virtual PC
> > processes in full screen text mode?
> >
>     Yup, and switch back and forth from window to fullscreen
> instantly. With a multi-sync monitor, of course.
>
>
> >  Does the Mac even _have_ something like a
> > full-screen black-and-white text mode?
> >
>      Well, in Virtual PC it does, otherwise --- ??? I suppose you
> could turn the whole screen b&w but why?/
>
>
> > Can you run Linux as a child process? What
> >
>      That I have not tried so far. You can dual-boot to the PPC
> Linux, of course. As I do to BeOS, but I've Linux running on 3 other
> machines at the moment, and haven't exactly felt the need for another.
> Frankly, I'm too busy exploring the Mac still, but sooner or later I'll
> probably try Linux under Virtual PC.

This point will also become more murkier or more exciting depending on your POV with
Mac OS X which has a BSD kernel. There has already been confirmation that the use
of standard Unix X-applications will require only a recompile to run under that
environment. The promise/hope is a kind of best of both worlds. We'll have to wait
and see. I was thinking also of a dual-boot system with Virtual PC to Xy and some of my
other DOS applications! OS X may provide a better system.


>
>
> > about COMM stuff and the quality of TCP/IP?
> >
>    You have access to serial, parallel, and ethernet ports under
> Virtual PC. However, I'm not sure at all why you would want to use those
> COMM and TCP/IP funtions instead of the native Mac ones -- which work
> extremely well, and are very un-problematic, like most Mac stuff.
>
>
> > And suppose you don't run ANY graphix
> > programs -- no PageMaker or Photoshop or DTP -- are there still advantages?
> >
>    So you mean your just essentially running DOS and XY, and maybe a
> browser, and fax/comm app? Well, then I probably wouldn't bother. Then
> you don't need windoz, or w95, or anything either. However, for the
> computer neophyte, or the technically impaired, I now heartily recommend
> they buy one of the new I-Macs for the sheer ease and painlessness of
> the experience compared to setting up even a simple DOS box, let alone
> any windoz stuff.
>

My feeling is that, given VPC's functionality (which some people use here for Win95 & WinNT )
coupled with
M$'s desire for us to use Windoze-only apps (preferably their own) and their push AWAY from DOS, and
the
knowledge that M$ OS's will only get bigger and more bloated, less innovative, and unfortunately,
more
visibile, I cling tenaciously to an idea that better is better. Via Apple and the next genearation
IMACS
i can gain access to Linux or the underlying Unix of OS X, still keep my beloved XY4 & other DOS
apps, AND
send an economic message to M$ that i won't reward their continued bloatware juggernaut, by buying
an incremental
patch that should have been there to begin with! I acknowledge
good craftsmanship whether that is in SW, HW etc. I may not always be able to afford it, but i don't
mind
spending money for good tools! Xywrite is definitely one of those tools!


>
> > What about file management, grep, that sort of thing: is there a command line?
> >
>    File management is pretty simple -- you can choose icon view or
> "list" view, which like a dos or windoz file manager, gives you the file
> names, sizes, etc. but you can still drag and drop the files. I switch
> back and forth all the time. Have some folders -- directories -- open as
> icons, others open as hierarcheal text lists at the same time. I've got
> a egrep utility that is exellent -- but the new "sherlock" finder that's
> built in is pretty slick as a search engine that works on your
> harddrives, cdroms, or the network and internet. OTOH, here's where
> MacOS falls down -- as of v 8.5, there still is no pre-emptive
> multitasking (that won't be here until MacOS X, the next full release I
> think) and so some things can slow you right down. Still, the G3's are
> so fast that it's not bad. You can really see the difference tho when
> you boot BeOS on the same machine.
>    No command line per se -- unless you get something like
> CodeWarrior, which let's you into the guts of MacOS, compiles, etc. And
> you know, not having a command line was always one of those things that
> made me turn up my nose at Macs -- but when you start playing around
> with the Mac way of doing things, I don't really notice it not being
> there.

I know that there used to be utilities for the Mac that would let you have a
command line-like interface to the OS.

>    I'm sort of amazed at it really -- if anyone had told me a couple
> of years ago that I'd be buying a Mac, I'd have flat out laughed in
> their face. And when I did buy it, I told myself that I'd be putting
> Linux on it right away and just boot to MacOS when I wanted to use
> Pagemaker, Photoshop, etc -- but I still haven't bought PPC Linux and
> don't even know if I will, the MacOS is quite intriguing.
>
> > Are there command line utilities?
> >
>      Let's say you can do everything you need to do, it's just
> different.
>
> > When you say it runs "most" W9x/NT/OS2, could
> > you amplify on the "most" part? What doesn't run?
> >
>    You have to install w95 or NT or OS/2 in Virtual PC, it won't
> just run the apps. And you can create a number of VPC "disk images" with
> one OS on each, and then start up one of the other. The only apps that I
> know of that people have problems with are some of the PC games, and
> that's mostly a matter of speed. But if playing w95 games is a big thing
> for you, well -- and Mac games are pretty outstanding in their own
> right. I'm sure their are w95 or NT apps that make a lot of hardware
> calls that won't work -- for instance, you can't install a PC MPEG
> decoder card in a PowerMac PCI slot and expect to run the w95 MPEG
> software -- that's a pretty silly idea.
>    Don't know why you would want to run *any* windoz app in
> emulation under VPC when you could run a native Mac version anyway. The
> Mac version of Photoshop, for instance, has more functionality than the
> windoz version, as do many other graphics apps.
>

IF a mac version does indeed exist. Economic and liscensing deals from M$ tend to
make the Mac version of an application a little slow in coming.

>
> >
> > And speaking of OS/2, does Apple have a future? If the OS/2 analogy holds,
> > excellence doesn't necessarily mean dominance or, as you would have it, a future.
> >
>
>     Well, since the new IMacs came out 3 months or so ago, they have
> outsold all other computers, and 29% of those sales are to first time
> Mac buyers, with a third of those people who were switching from wndoz.
> And Mac users were already 22 million strong. A fairly large newspaper
> -- I think Portland, ME -- just dumped their other computers and bought
> all Macs, and a lot of universities are spending a lot on Macs again.
> Plus Apple is obviously pretty committed to their product, whereas IBM
> just wasn't, and have now essentially dropped OS/2 development. Apple
> seems to be going great guns for development at this point.

the future of ANY platform is questionable at best! From a money standpoint, my cynical view
has always been that there will always be certain things just because it makes money for them to
continue to exist, regardless of what they produce. I think M$ will be around because of that.

Linux will be around, in whatever version, because it's free and there is a large base of users who
like it
and will continue to use it! (I think the same holds true for Xy as well. I know i'll continue to
use
it as long as i can find a machine that can run dos!)

As far as Apple goes, while the current numbers look good, i think that it may still be a little
early. But,
I know that, for myself, i'll buy a next gen G3/G4 machine, not only for performance but also true
innovation.
(I'm also a Newton owner.)

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>
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