Re: OT: Status, Portable

["M.W. Poirier" poirmw@xxxxxxxx]

Yes, true it is a little more cumbersome in French, but it does not
lead to the problem you claim, for it would not be English syntax
that would be used. The idea you want to convey would be written
as follows:

Voici Tom et Jane qui arrivent. Tom a une plume. Je veux l'emprunter.

To some extent "qui arrivent" is understood by the word "voici,"
inasmuch as one would not say in English "Here are Tom and Jane"
if they were present all along. When one says "Here are Tom and
Jane," there is a suggestion that they are arriving on the scene. Well,
in French it may be a good idea to draw that out, ...but, as it reread
it, I see that it may not be absolutely necessary to draw it out. So, I
suppose one could get away with:

Voici Tom et Jane. Tom a une plume. Je veux l'emprunter.

The phrase "Tom a une plume." is required if you want to go one to
say "Je veux l'emprunter." or "Je veux emprunter sa plume." otherwise
one would fall into the trap you point to.

This is a little more cumbersome than the English equivalent, but
not that much more cumbersome. And I'm not sure that one would
want to say "Here is Tom and Jane. I want to borrow his pen." anyway
in English. There is something missing from that English sentence, it
seems to me.

My two cents.

M.W. Poirier

==========================================================================
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Paul Williams wrote:

> At 29/06/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> Pity the poor French with their grammar: You would have no
> problem with "Here is Tom and Jane. I want to borrow his pen." But consider
> the French where the possessive must reflect the gender of the object.
> "Voici Tom et Jane. Je veux prêter sa plume". Whose? Tom's or Jane's? As
> the Frenchman rushes off to the penless Jane you realise why the British
> Empire was so much more successful than the French one.
>