Re: For Kenny Frank re: BASIC?! re: (how many embedded

[holmgrn@xxxxxxxx]

> You said "I can't get
> all the Windowsy garbage out of sight..." In fact you certainly
> can do that-- I do all the time. The buttons are easy-- simply turn
> them off in your preferences and you never have to see them again. Same for
> the format bar and ruler. Then if you want, by pressing CTRL+SHIFT+V (for
> view) eliminate the menus as well and have nothing but document.

Kenny: I don't pretend to know much about XyWin, but doesn't the
default I mentioned, "D UI=1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0", turn off
every conceivable bell & whistle?

> When in this mode the command line is only visible when you press F5.
> Personally I think there should be an option to have the command line always
> visible in this mode, which would in effect completely duplicate in Windows
> the DOS interface, but for some reason it hasn't been implemented that way...
> yet.

Doesn't the default I mentioned leave you with an always-visible
command line
(+ a PRompt line, on the *same* line) only, and *nothing* else --
thereby emulating DOS -- and being bare-bones and efficient? I
think it does; anyway that was my intent... But try it, and
you'll see -- it's buggy.... If there's some secret, what is it?
 I recall that doing what you describe through the menus
(Preferences) gave me a jumpy screen; lines appeared then
disappeared like Jack-in-the-boxes. (But, I haven't played with
it in looooong time.)

> Also, while I only read your comments about graphics/draft/expanded views
> cursorily, you should be aware that expanded view is internally quite
> different, in that essentially no processing is going on at all except to
> break lines on the screen. As I understand it, I have probed in this area a
> number of times, the different modes are, for better or worse, really treated
> very differently internally. You are right, of course, that since the display
> in Windows is all graphic, to some extent each mode has some graphic
> attributes, but I think that is where it ends.

Look, "no processing going on" should be an opportunity to
increase speed, not retard it. If there's no processing going
on, how come benchmarks are so much slower? Time something
idiotic -- anything: loop 10000 times, or CL then CR
1000 times [see below]. If it executes in 12 seconds in WZ, it
takes 20-30 seconds in WG|XP, and MUCH more if there's any
intensive cursor manipulation on-screen. Try this:

XPLeNCODE v1.6 begin TMP46.TMP
{<}SX01,0{>}[BF_][ZT_]{<}LBA{>}{<}SX01,{<}PV01{>}+1{>}[CL_][C
R_]{<}IF{<}PV01{>}<1000{>}{<}GLA{>}{<}EI{>}{<}SX01,"Elapsed T
ime: "+{<}VA$ET{>}{>}{<}PR@01{>}{<}EX{>}[cr|lf]
[cr|lf]
[cr|lf]

test text end
XPLeNCODE

Times: (486 DX50)
=====
Xy4DOS  XP  3.19 secs
Xy4DOS  WG  3.31 secs
Xy4DOS  WZ 23.10 secs

XyWin  XP 14.65 secs with default UI=1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0
XyWin  WG 14.81 secs
XyWin  WZ 22.19 secs

Hmmmm. That's !different! than the kinds of benchmarks I got
under v4.11 (WZ used to be *much* faster than XP|WG, really darn
close to XP in Xy4DOS. What's going on here? Try changing
default UI?)

XyWin  XP  5.53 secs with default UI=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,1
XyWin  WG  5.66 secs
XyWin  WZ 13.00 secs

XyWin  XP  3.85 secs with default UI=0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
XyWin  WG  3.96 secs
XyWin  WZ  5.91 secs

Well, that last one is entering the impressive range! (But why
aren't these various "views" all approximately the same? The
first one was absurd! Grrrrrh)
But clearly, with the optimal setup (whatever it is) there's very
impressive speed optimization in XyWin right across the board.

So, ask your engineers: how can it be hard for them to display
the exact ASCII text of a file, foregoing any effort to format it
or to disguise the embedded codes (we're talking eXPanded mode
here, for the sake of argument), but using the graphics fonts?
That has GOT to be immensely faster than ANYTHING else that
EDITOR could possibly do! Because NOTHING is being asked of the
graphics engine, except to throw raw text on-screen. I repeat:
would that look good, or not? It would look great. They just
started off on the wrong tack, and now they're married to it.

Ciao for niao


=======
Robert J. Holmgren holmgrn@xxxxxxxx
=======