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Re: We should [NOT] move en masse to Nota Bene (sorry Anne!)

Thanks Kari for this intelligent and reality-based overview.
Nevertheless, I predict that Win 7 will be supported by MS for at
least ten more years and that solutions some of us more marginal
people need will be forthcoming. I see Win 8 as a panic reaction to
IOS. Eventually, the panic will abate, and MS will realize that IOS
is not the model it needs to follow. Heck, even Apple may realize
that, because its professional users are not at all happy about the
direction OS X is taking, i.e. IOS-wards. The manufacturers have
panicked; the power users are panicking. Eventually there will be
equilibrium. I think virtualization will get even better. I am
surprised that Virtual PC has not made it to Win 8 but let's see how
it looks two years from now. XP is a very old system, and has been
supported a good long time.


You have given us part of the software picture. Now how about the
hardware? Does Intel have any plans to abandon instructions needed to
run, say, XP, or even DOS? I would be deeply surprised. If not, there
will always be a good virtualization system available, because
protected mode support is so deeply embedded into every Intel
processor since the 386.


One might wish, meanwhile, that it was easier to bring the XyWrite
code into the 21st century, but clearly it isn't.


We seem to be living through a low point - - from our point of view.
Let's see where we are in six months time and 12 months time. I
suspect it will look better. The industry is going through a lot of
shocks, and the general economic climate is only adding to that. We
need to get past that, with patience.


At 23/12/2012 07:22, you wrote:

>It seems to me, since Win 8 (-64) is already here, and since it
seems to have been designed with virtualization in mind, that we
ought to be trying out strategies for getting XyWrite to work on
that. It is beginning to look like DOS support will never go away.
I haven't tried Win8 yet but I am will have to in the next couple
of months. For what it's worth, though I seem to have found XyWrite
in XP Mode the merest trifle sluggish on a 2009 i-5, it seems
acceptable on a 2011 i-7. One thing I like is that XP mode doesn't
seem to take up much memory, as programs nowadays go. Obviously, I
would prefer a much simpler environment, but this is so easy to
deal with, it doesn't bother me. Regarding something someone said
about two different C: drives, on my default XP Mode setup, the XP
"c" drive is a network drive, so I just assign it another letter,
such as G. End of confusion. I must admit that I have spent almost
no time at all getting this to work. The benefits of the stable Xy4
 code base seem to me to outweigh any possible disadvantages. And
it's still faster to do common operations than with Word. That
said, I have found Word 2010 to be surprisingly good, and hope that
Word 2013 doesn't lose any of the improved code. That's what's so
great about Xy4. You know exactly where you are. Nothing can get
better, but far more important, nothing can get worse. In this
dreadfully unstable world, that must count for something.


You said "DOS support will never go away". I am not so sure anymore.

Some excerpts to contemplate:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2724115 states:
With the end of extended support for Windows XP in April 2014,
Microsoft has decided not to develop Windows XP Mode for Windows
8. If you're a Windows 7 customer who uses Windows XP Mode and are
planning a move to Windows 8, this article may be helpful to you.


When you upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8, Windows XP Mode is
installed on your machine, however Windows Virtual PC is not present
anymore. This issue occurs because Windows Virtual PC is not
supported on Windows 8. To retrieve data from the Windows XP Mode
virtual machine, perform the steps listed in the More Information section.


http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverhyperv/thread/e18f4409-6b2d-437a-b505-7e18db77f608
reads:
>> As I mentioned, MS-DOS is too old, it doesn't make sense to
support it on Hyper-V.


Windows 8 will have Hyper-V as a virtualization solution.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/virtual_pc_guy/archive/2010/05/27/installing-windows-98-on-windows-virtual-pc.aspx
states:


Windows Virtual PC only officially supports Windows XP, Windows
Vista and Windows 7 as guest operating systems. Thankfully it has
great compatibility and can run many operating systems that are not
officially supported.


I recently needed to setup a Windows 98 virtual machine ...

I was then able to install Windows 98 with no real problems: ...

But you will not get:

 a.. Clipboard integration
 b.. Time synchronization
 c.. Shared Folders
 d.. Printer / smart card sharing

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/16/running-windows-8-developer-preview-in-a-virtual-environment.aspx
states:
Windows 8 Developer Preview only came out a few days ago, so many of
the virtualization products on the market have not yet been updated
to work well with it. We are working closely with all of the major
manufacturers of virtualization products to support Windows 8 as we
move toward release.


Forum members are reporting success using a few products. Of the
most popular options, our baseline assessment is as follows:


Functional:

 a.. Hyper-V in Windows 8 Developer Preview
 b.. Hyper-V in Windows Server 2008 R2
 c.. VMware Workstation 8.0 for Windows
 d.. VirtualBox 4.1.2 for Windows
Non-functional:

 a.. Microsoft Virtual PC (all versions)
 b.. Microsoft Virtual Server (all versions)
 c.. Windows 7 XP Mode
 d.. VMWare Workstation 7.x or older

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/virtual_pc_guy/archive/2009/08/19/running-virtual-pc-2007-on-windows-7.aspx
says:


Yes, it is possible to run Virtual PC 2007 on Windows 7

http://blog.frankovic.net/2009/03/vpc-2007-inside-hyper-v-20/ says:

VPC 2007 inside Hyper-V ...
Installing Virtual PC 2007 inside virtualized Windows XP went like a
breeze. Using Virtual PC I installed Windows 98 SE in virtualized
Windows XP, and guess what, it works, and it works very well and
fast as soon as I installed Virtual Machine Additions.


The conclusion: Windows 8 does not support VirtualPC, Hyper-V does
not support DOS, DOS is in dire straits on the MS platform. Windows
7 is the last system where you can easily exchange information
between DOS and Windows using virtualization (Virtual PC 2007 and
DOS additions) if you do not want to perform double-virtualization
tricks (Virtual PC 2007 and DOS additions under virtualized XP under Hyper V).


XP is still the best platform for no-nonsense computing in the MS
realm. Continued support for XP is very important for many
businesses and people who want to avoid unnecessary hassles. Windows
7 is a modern alternative, but Windows 8 seems to be a no-go. I will
be sticking with XP as long as I can.


Best regards,

Kari Eveli
LEXITEC Book Publishing (Finland)
lexitec@xxxxxxxx

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